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Fresca
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Joined: 25 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:11 pm    Post subject: Finally !!!! Reply with quote

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18274639/?GT1=9246

Wiccan symbol OK on military headstones
Families of fallen soldiers reach settlement with Veterans Affairs

MADISON, Wis. - The Wiccan pentacle has been added to the list of emblems allowed in national cemeteries and on government-issued headstones of fallen soldiers, according to a settlement announced Monday.

A settlement between the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs and Wiccans adds the five-pointed star to the list of "emblems of belief" allowed on VA grave markers.

Eleven families nationwide are waiting for grave markers with the pentacle, said Selena Fox, a Wiccan high priestess with Circle Sanctuary in Barneveld, Wis., a plaintiff in the lawsuit.

The settlement calls for the pentacle, whose five points represent earth, air, fire, water and spirit, to be placed on grave markers within 14 days for those who have pending requests with the VA.

"I am glad this has ended in success in time to get markers for Memorial Day," Fox said.

The VA sought the settlement in the interest of the families involved and to save taxpayers the expense of further litigation, VA spokesman Matt Burns said. The agency also agreed to pay $225,000 in attorneys' fees and costs.

The pentacle has been added to 38 symbols the VA already permits on gravestones. They include commonly recognized symbols for Christianity, Buddhism, Islam and Judaism, as well as those for smaller religions such as Sufism Reoriented, Eckiankar and the Japanese faith Seicho-No-Ie.

"This settlement has forced the Bush Administration into acknowledging that there are no second class religions in America, including among our nation's veterans," said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, which represented the Wiccans in the lawsuit.

The American Civil Liberties Union said the agreement also settles a similar lawsuit it filed last year against the VA. In that case, the ACLU represented two other Wiccan churches and three individuals.

VA-issued headstones, markers and plaques can be used in any cemetery, whether it is a national one such as Arlington or a private burial ground like that on Circle Sanctuary's property.

Wicca is a nature-based religion based on respect for the earth, nature and the cycle of the seasons. Variations of the pentacle not accepted by Wiccans have been used in horror movies as a sign of the devil.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
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TheHoodedMan
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Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Finally !!!! Reply with quote

Fresca wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18274639/?GT1=9246

Wiccan symbol OK on military headstones
Families of fallen soldiers reach settlement with Veterans Affairs

MADISON, Wis. - The Wiccan pentacle has been added to the list of emblems allowed in national cemeteries and on government-issued headstones of fallen soldiers, according to a settlement announced Monday.

A settlement between the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs and Wiccans adds the five-pointed star to the list of "emblems of belief" allowed on VA grave markers.

Eleven families nationwide are waiting for grave markers with the pentacle, said Selena Fox, a Wiccan high priestess with Circle Sanctuary in Barneveld, Wis., a plaintiff in the lawsuit.

The settlement calls for the pentacle, whose five points represent earth, air, fire, water and spirit, to be placed on grave markers within 14 days for those who have pending requests with the VA.

"I am glad this has ended in success in time to get markers for Memorial Day," Fox said.

The VA sought the settlement in the interest of the families involved and to save taxpayers the expense of further litigation, VA spokesman Matt Burns said. The agency also agreed to pay $225,000 in attorneys' fees and costs.

The pentacle has been added to 38 symbols the VA already permits on gravestones. They include commonly recognized symbols for Christianity, Buddhism, Islam and Judaism, as well as those for smaller religions such as Sufism Reoriented, Eckiankar and the Japanese faith Seicho-No-Ie.

"This settlement has forced the Bush Administration into acknowledging that there are no second class religions in America, including among our nation's veterans," said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, which represented the Wiccans in the lawsuit.

The American Civil Liberties Union said the agreement also settles a similar lawsuit it filed last year against the VA. In that case, the ACLU represented two other Wiccan churches and three individuals.

VA-issued headstones, markers and plaques can be used in any cemetery, whether it is a national one such as Arlington or a private burial ground like that on Circle Sanctuary's property.

Wicca is a nature-based religion based on respect for the earth, nature and the cycle of the seasons. Variations of the pentacle not accepted by Wiccans have been used in horror movies as a sign of the devil.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.


I was thinking if you took this one step farther and that being since it has been proven that Modern Day Wicca and that is what the proponents are practicing, then it ultimately is Crowley who has won as he was responsible for Gardner's foundational material.

TFR
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Fresca
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Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 197

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Finally !!!! Reply with quote

TheHoodedMan wrote:

I was thinking if you took this one step farther and that being since it has been proven that Modern Day Wicca and that is what the proponents are practicing, then it ultimately is Crowley who has won as he was responsible for Gardner's foundational material.

TFR


That is a way to look at it.
Personally I see it as a victory for America. Since 9-11 we have been watching the Bill of rights get hacked away.

It's important on a number of levels... the VA has no right to say "yea ok you died in service to your country, but we don't think you have the right to have your religion acknowledged in death like the others"

Just so you know, Wicca has been a recognized faith by the US military. If you enlist when they ask you what religion you are... you _can_ choose Wicca as your faith. Military clergy are taught at least the basics of wicca to properly minister to Wiccan soldiers. It is the Veterans Administration that was not recognizing Wicca as a religion.
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And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit
- The Tick
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TheHoodedMan
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Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Finally !!!! Reply with quote

Fresca wrote:
TheHoodedMan wrote:

I was thinking if you took this one step farther and that being since it has been proven that Modern Day Wicca and that is what the proponents are practicing, then it ultimately is Crowley who has won as he was responsible for Gardner's foundational material.

TFR


That is a way to look at it.
Personally I see it as a victory for America. Since 9-11 we have been watching the Bill of rights get hacked away.

It's important on a number of levels... the VA has no right to say "yea ok you died in service to your country, but we don't think you have the right to have your religion acknowledged in death like the others"

Just so you know, Wicca has been a recognized faith by the US military. If you enlist when they ask you what religion you are... you _can_ choose Wicca as your faith. Military clergy are taught at least the basics of wicca to properly minister to Wiccan soldiers. It is the Veterans Administration that was not recognizing Wicca as a religion.


Yes. The VA is also requiring patients to attend G.O.D. Squad religious meetings too.

It is sadly just a pebble in the long road of complete acceptance of religions by those who are entrenched.

I want to stop there for if I continue it will only result in a treatise. Very Happy
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Vamp
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Joined: 30 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This case I admit left me totally flabbergasted. The Military uses the same pentagram on their planes, tanks, congressional medals of honor, etc...........
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TheHoodedMan
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vamp wrote:
This case I admit left me totally flabbergasted. The Military uses the same pentagram on their planes, tanks, congressional medals of honor, etc...........


Well I can spell denial and know it isn't a river in Egypt Very Happy

Seriously though you would think the Military wouldn't mind what religion a person was as long as they got the job done.

TFR
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Fresca
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Joined: 25 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not the US Army or Navy, Airforce, Marines, Coast Guard or National Guard. It's the Veterans Affaris. Say for example you are Wiccan or Hindu or Buddhist or Jewish or one of a million Christian Sects, It doesnt matter your dog tags will read whatever you want them to. I knew a few Wiccans in the Army, they went to circle with other soldiers It was cool

It's the VA that was being a pain

Here's the current list:
http://www.cem.va.gov/cem/hm/hmemb.asp

you might find the list interesting
_________________
And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit
- The Tick
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