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Fresca
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Joined: 25 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:34 am    Post subject: A Commentary Reply with quote

I have an inherint problem w/ all these guys and always have.

On one hand I have no problem in listening to what they have to say, here is where the real problem is. that they go a long way in sabotaging the work and message of alternative views... relegating them to the "tin foil hat" group.

here are some issues that concern me:

1. 9/11 - Alot of things happened that day and not all the explanations were what I'd call... plausable. Yes It does need to be investigated... not from a pro-government or anti-government angle. A genuine non-partisan investigation

2. Children DO get abducted. Children DO get abused - What these people are doing is clouding a REAL issue with alot of garbage. You know, if someone is aware of a ring of somesort they have a moral and ethical obligation to expose it, NOT make a profit off of nebulous claims.

3. There ARE Christians who do good works and do their best to help people and bring out truth. There are alot of well meaning people. Unfortunately their names get tarnished by associations with these types of people.

just my 2 bits
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TheHoodedMan
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Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:31 am    Post subject: Re: A Commentary Reply with quote

[quote="Fresca"]I have an inherint problem w/ all these guys and always have.

On one hand I have no problem in listening to what they have to say, here is where the real problem is. that they go a long way in sabotaging the work and message of alternative views... relegating them to the "tin foil hat" group.

here are some issues that concern me:
Quote:

1. 9/11 - Alot of things happened that day and not all the explanations were what I'd call... plausable. Yes It does need to be investigated... not from a pro-government or anti-government angle. A genuine non-partisan investigation


That would be a given. In fact why limit it to just 9/11.

Quote:

2. Children DO get abducted. Children DO get abused - What these people are doing is clouding a REAL issue with alot of garbage. You know, if someone is aware of a ring of somesort they have a moral and ethical obligation to expose it, NOT make a profit off of nebulous claims.


Yes they do. I have a VERY Big problem with this. But making up stories, facts and even lying is wrong. I have no problem with the truth of something. If some sicko does something ala Hollywood and/or a parent/relative does it, then go after them legally.

Quote:

3. There ARE Christians who do good works and do their best to help people and bring out truth. There are alot of well meaning people. Unfortunately their names get tarnished by associations with these types of people.


I have been saying that all along. I even used links from Christian sites when I can find them to show that. Not every Christian does this, but then again how many just stand by and allow it to continue instead of speaking out against the practice. How many misinterpret the NT and OT to fit their agendas. If the same zeal were used to stop it from the Christian side then it would be made known that not everyone is doing it. Why do you think I want a complete story. I contact the people doing it and they either refuse to be interviewed or just don't even take the time to respond.

When you are offering to discuss their point of view and they won't do it that says volumes. The problem is the people who spread this garbage won't discuss it with anyone who can prove them wrong in what they are doing. It will show the public what is happening. If you so sure of your facts then it should not make a difference what Podcast, Radio Show, etc they appear on. I have even volunteered to go on Pro Christian Shows to discuss it and not one of them will do that. If you want the truth to be known then cover the entire story. Don't provide a venue for half a story and once a person demonstrates a position disagreeing with it then investigate it. Why is it that when a story, person is discredited it is just buried and not made a serious topic of disclosure? The reason is very simple. It is goes against the agenda and to admit the truth puts the whole agenda under suspicion and truth is ignored as long as the goal is realized.

Quote:
just my 2 bits


And some of mine as well

TFR
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TheHoodedMan
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Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's take it one step further. Why can't a person, group, organization practice openly? If you not violating the law then what is the problem?

How many Pagan TV channels do you see? How many Pagan Radio Stations are there? Major Newspapers that are openly Pagan?

Last count ZERO. Contrast that with how many are openly Christian!!!

The balance of coverage is not there. The only place where any media is available with it is on the Net. Small newsletters and a few magazines outside of the Net, but no TV, Radio, Major Newspapers!!!

Yet you hear that the world is being taken over by non Christians, well prove it. Show the tangible evidence. Stop the nonsense, stop accusing everyone and everything. The people who make the claims have little to no personal experience. You can point out one or two people with claims of some personal experience, but the majority has none. Each time the personal experience of those on the pro Christian side is looked at it is shown to be less tha claimed or even made up. Then that person once shown to lose effectiveness is replaced but nothing is said about the prior fraud. Why is that?

Simple it shows what has taken place and then the agenda is undermined.

Wake up.

A real Christian is not a part of this. No real Christian supports spreading of lies. So join in and expose the lies. Make it end once and for all.

If you really practice what you preach don't find excuses to avoid following a religion, work at it. Stop making up facts to hide the shortcomings and point the finger away from the inherent problems in the religion.

I did a Podcast on the breakdown by religion of convicted felons, and the majority of those felons are and have been Christians. Again not one person refuted the facts, but gave excuses why there were so many.

Christianity as intended is not practiced. It has so many denominations and variations that people should realize that not a single one of those has it correctly interpreted. You can't even find agreement among Bible versions. But everyone claims it is the infallible word of God. Well if it is infallible, then why the differences? Why doesn't one book work for everyone and I am not talking about languages, it is the basic work.

To claim that "not all Christians" are doing it is fine, now prove that by standing up and fighting against the spreading of lies and examples of what is right. Christians should be at the front of the line screaming for it to stop, not remaining silent and by omission or failure to act condoning it and thereby tacitly supporting those acting in direct opposition to the faith.

TFR
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TheHoodedMan
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Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:14 am    Post subject: Re: A Commentary Reply with quote

[quote="TheHoodedMan"]
Fresca wrote:
I have an inherint problem w/ all these guys and always have.

On one hand I have no problem in listening to what they have to say, here is where the real problem is. that they go a long way in sabotaging the work and message of alternative views... relegating them to the "tin foil hat" group.

here are some issues that concern me:


Quote:

2. Children DO get abducted. Children DO get abused - What these people are doing is clouding a REAL issue with alot of garbage. You know, if someone is aware of a ring of somesort they have a moral and ethical obligation to expose it, NOT make a profit off of nebulous claims.


Yes they do. I have a VERY Big problem with this. But making up stories, facts and even lying is wrong. I have no problem with the truth of something. If some sicko does something ala Hollywood and/or a parent/relative does it, then go after them legally.


Here is a link that shows what lies have done to people:

http://members.shaw.ca/imaginarycrimes/othercases.htm

Check out the link and determine if the damage being done by lies is real. Determine for yourself if the lives of innocent people have been damaged and then show where they were given back what was taken from them.

Show where the liars who put them in jail were made to compensate them for the damage that was caused by lying under oath.

This is just one website. Why is the press never made to give the same coverage for destroying the lives of people. Why does the media not spend an equal amount of time making amends for what they did?

If the media can devote so much time in the initial story then they should spend an equal amount of time in reporting the results when it is made known that the original story resulted in ruining innocent lives. Media often convicts a person long before a trial takes place and influences the public to arrive at the conclusion that is later shown to be wrong.

Let's see the same zeal used to report a story used to make sure the truth is made public. If the police and prosecution gain a conviction they rarely work for release once the truth shows the conviction was wrong.

Prosecution Attorneys (DA) are under oath and obligation to seek the truth, why the do they fail to do it? Why are police and the courts never made to suffer the same penalties when they are shown to have violated the rights of a person?

The penalties should be at least equal for those who worked to obtain an invalid conviction and once shown, the violation should be immediately made made known to the general public and those who violated the rights of a person made to suffer the same penalty as the original.

That is never done, in fact the people who do this don't have to worry as they get rewarded for violating the rights of people and never have to endure similar fates.

TFR

TFR
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TheHoodedMan
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out this link.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/ra_baker.htm

After reading it compare it to the many abuse stories and see if the same thing hasn't occurred numerous times.

http://users.rcn.com/kyp/amirault.html

http://www.freebaran.org/

These are just a few of over a hundred cases where only after years of incarceration was the truth made known.

Still think that Fundamentalist/Evangelical claims are harmless?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/innocence/etc/other.html#3

Wow! Remember the McMartin trial? Ted Gunderson still does. He is still keeping the public engaged in the Witch hunt mentality.

Look up what Ted has been up to lately and find out what his fellow FBI agents think about him. What about others that Ted affected??

http://www.newsmakingnews.com/gunderson.htm

http://www.stewwebb.com/open_letter_to_ted_gunderson_et_Jackie%20McGauley%20McMartin%20Preschool%20Whistleblower%20Comments.htm

Hmmm. Still not convinced, then keep looking you will eventually find enough evidence to prove that the damage from lies need to be recognized and those spreading it stopped, exposed, and made to pay for what they have done.

TFR
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Fresca
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Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 197

PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stew Webb's site is pretty wild

he's accusing Gunderson of attempted murder and murder for hire
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And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit
- The Tick
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